**Spoiler alert** scene from Better Call Saul. Te solves puzzles like Ti does, except it only deals with events that actually happened versus imagining or theorizing. The Te user in the scene is ENTJ Lalo Salamanca.
I haven't seen this show. I find it funny how Saul keeps coming up with excuses, but if I were Lalo, I'd ask pretty much the same questions. However, I don't know if I'd have that much patience to listen to the nonsense Saul is giving 😂 It's funny to watch, but not to be on the receiving end. But I can also see myself doing what Kim did: cutting the crap and trying to make Lalo see that he needs to be "reasonable" because of this and that, and pointing out what he could've done or should do, but it was his choice to use Saul.
When you get into that investigative mood: How much do you theorize, or like how much do you build a case and invest yourself in it knowing it's true?
I try to base my reasoning on facts that are true and can be proven, but sometimes I can be too hasty when I find something that seems to answer a question clearly. However, it may end up being just a small part of the whole picture, and while it does provide some answers, it may not address the entire issue.
Sometimes, I may misunderstand or forget something, so while a fact may offer an answer, it becomes "pointless" when considered in the context of the whole situation. I strive to gather enough evidence to support my arguments, but occasionally, I may overlook something important or collect too much "unnecessary" evidence, which, although true, may be somewhat irrelevant to the case 😅
It’s like solving sudoku puzzles. I look around, trying to find things that prevent something from being there, and I try to find the spots that have only one right answer. I don’t waste my time on those "squares" that have too many options at that moment; I trust that they’ll become clearer once I've solved the others that are already clear.
But it could be the case that I have sure numbers in place and I’m missing only a few. And then I go like, "But look at all of these numbers that are definitely correct!" However, it could be the case that the only number that mattered (or could change the answer) was in the square I hadn’t solved yet, or that everything else was on a completely different row 😂😂😂
How much do you hypothesize? Or how much do you spitball, throw an idea or a hunch in the air, and find something or someone that provides the answer?
When I lack sufficient evidence, especially when it involves someone else, I tend to take a different approach. I believe I have "no right" to determine someone else's reasoning or intentions. In such cases, I can hypothesize various possibilities but refrain from deciding which is true. Instead, I prefer to directly ask the individual involved, giving them the opportunity to explain themselves rather than passing judgment.
Additionally, I acknowledge that I may have overlooked something, so I don't fully trust my own judgment in such situations. For less important or serious matters, I may entertain various possibilities, such as x, y, or z, or even a "hunch in the air" scenario. However, most of the time, I prefer to ask questions and gather facts first, ensuring that I have solid evidence to support my conclusions. I aim to avoid being someone who blames things or people without any proof.
I’ve noticed that the more I've become aware that some things have multiple “right” answers, the more hesitant I've become to present my cases as absolute. I do present the facts as absolute, but not the result. Or, like, I've become more flexible with the idea that it could be something else, even if it’s clear to me. For example, if I see a red ball, I can state as a fact that it is a red ball, but I'm aware that people who can't see red won’t see it the way I do, despite it being a fact that it is red. So, I take people’s point of view into consideration too and present my cases as "in my point of view." I try to make it clear that I’ll give a chance for the truth to be something else than what my point of view tells me. (But I won’t change my point of view unless solid evidence is presented.)
Do you think my answers are more TeSe or SeTe style?
Seems TeSe style to me. You're very result conscious. You’re comfortable working things out, knowing what's fact or not. SeTe would be much more naive with their conclusions, everything is absolute fact, it's more "I see it as it is." Te Agency (child) is more "risky." And it can look overly gullible to a Te Dominant. But it's like its own charm because thinking that way gives them a much greater go-getter "can do" attitude. For example:
Te Agency:
“If it looks like a duck, and quacks like duck, it's a duck! Common sense! It shouldn't be that complicated. Let's just go off with that for now and revise if we find more evidence.”
Te Dominant:
“The facts are that it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck. It all adds to it being a duck.. But you're the expert, so tell me how it's not a duck. We need to be sure because all decisions from here will be based on the very fact whether if it's a duck or not.”
I see! I think I’m more the latter with other people who are not my family. And with my family, and with things that aren’t so "important," I can be more the first one. But I usually say, if x, y, z is true, it clearly means it’s "a duck." So how on earth is it not "a duck"?!
You can see how ESFPs are flow-based types and are more concerned with getting things going. Like just keep shooting; they'll hit the target eventually, lol. Te can be relentless; it'll keep hammering until it gets it. It’s more of a "learn on the job" attitude.
ENTJs are result-based, so they're more concerned with getting things right. Se, being the Agency, is like looking for any detail that'll help make things more precise. Once they get a handle on everything, they can build the system that can hit the target on the first try. It’s more of a "trial and error" attitude to fine-tune the system.
The latter does sound awful lot like me! 😂😂😂 In my head, I’m a lot like “this has to work right away” and will spend time to perfect things so I don’t have to fix it all the time later and could move on to something else.
My guess is when you feel psychologically safe, you can loosen up and be more “flowy” like an ESFP.
It’s weird to “accept” ENTJ because I don’t want to kind of make it seem like I’d be some dictator who tells others what to do (yeah some stupid stereotypes have gotten to my brain and it’s hard to shake them off). Plus I don’t have that much faith in me when it comes to managing others. I wish only to manage myself and hope others could do that to themselves.
Also it feels like a brag when it’s not 😅 It would be so much easier to present myself as fun loving free ESFP than some uptight ENTJ but I know it’s probably usually harder to accept who you truly are. And I am someone who will spend time investigating rather than jump head on 😅
FWIW I have the best times with ENTJs! Sometimes they even take fun seriously lol.
Haha yeah 🙈 But when there is some kind of plan and it has been “reviewed” with everyone, they can just focus on having good time when they know everything is taken cared of 😬 I find it annoying to leave things for my future self to figure out 😅 I cannot know if I’d have energy if those left out things grow to be problems, so better to do it now.
It’s also kind of funny and contradictory that I wish and wait for time when I could be “free” and have no obligations. But when that happens for a while, I become anxious and start feeling so useless that I start to come up with problems to solve. When the world doesn’t give me lemons I plant my own 😂
Yeah so that's what I would call being "consciously cognitive." It’s one of the tells of being a codec (judging) dominant. The brain has to keep churning.
True 🙈 I spend most of my free time doing puzzles too 😅
In that way, the lens (perceiving) dominant throws caution to the wind: “fate will lead me wherever it leads me.”
I wish to be more like that. But noooo. I have to get all the information I can to be sure what’s ahead to come. Or that at least I know I can handle what it could be. I don’t wish to disappoint anyone if they depend on me because I’m not capable. But I’m not too fond of situations where people depend on me. I strive to throw the ball back to them as fast as I can.
That's all the more reasons why ENTJs don’t wanna be dictators, and much prefer do the actual work!
This is the thing I usually do when people ask about me and my ways. I let them decide what they think of it, with me shoving examples to their face, rather than me claiming something to be absolutely true. I tend to leave room for different interpretations but also want to make sure we have the same data and understanding of what we’re looking at. Because in some cases, when people are talking, they think they are talking about the same thing, but it could end up being that they were talking about the same tree but were looking at different leaves, or worse if they weren’t even talking about the same tree at all.
Sorry that I keep bringing myself into the things I say, but it’s easier to come up with my own examples. I feel like I’m not qualified to speak about someone else’s experience 😅 I feel awful and selfish when I keep bringing myself and my things to the front all the time but that’s the only thing I think I’m qualified to talk about.
Not selfish at all! Just sharing data points. It just happens that the highest quality data are your own experiences. Everything else seems too speculative to be comfortable sharing.
Kind of yea and also I’m not sure I have enough info to say something and what’s the point if everything I’d say is incorrect 😅 I can speculate to a point, but I always make sure I state that this is just speculation and not fact or that I’m not sure.
Have you imagined what it would feel like if you just knew everything for sure?
That’s an actual wish I’d ask from a genie 😂😂😂😂 To know the truth about anything I wish to know. Also, omnipotent powers would be nice. I’d probably use a power to change reality with additional preview possibilities so I could see how some change I’d make affects the world, and then choose the best one and do that. So I wouldn’t have to change the world for real only to notice it didn’t work.
We can only do what we humanly can! That’s that proactive intuition (Ni).
Could you elaborate on that? I’m not sure I follow 😅 Sorry I just want to make sure we are on the same “leaf”. I enjoy massively when someone is dissecting things like this and present it like “here I see thing x etc,” and I want to take it all in and learn from it, so I can add it to my own toolbox and possibly use it myself too when trying to observe something 🤗
So extraverted functions are reactive, while introverted functions are proactive. That's pretty much the only difference between the two essentially:
The outside world is too chaotic and stressful for introverts, so they try to be a step ahead by disassociating themselves away and understand the patterns that'll make the world more predictable. On the other hand, extroverts flow with the present. They react to outside stimuli and engage with the world. You can think of their introverted functions as anchors so they don't go too far off.
So what you did by imagining the possibilities is using Intuition. Ne would've quickly reacted and go forward and be ready to intercept whatever can possibly happen. But Ni being proactive wants to ensure the best course, so there's that extra step of holding off, not react, and figure out what's most desirable ahead of time.
Hahah that’s like how I love to optimize and tweak settings for anything. So then I can enjoy the experience without ever having to go there again. With games I tend to tweak and adjust longer than I even play the game 😅
Yup that’s Ni being authoritative, to set things right for the future. And then Se Agency got right in there and got caught up in it. I'd think it's kinda enjoyable but maybe that depends on the situation or how angry Ni could be.
For me it tends to be super enjoyable. I love setting things up and tweak everything but I don’t wish to do the same thing with the same stuff again. I want new things to tweak. I’m this household’s IT-service person and installer for basically anything that has electronics in it. TVs, phones, digital clock time adjuster for microwave and cars (and everything else too). But I’m also the handyman who fixes almost anything too. Be it repairing clothes or fixing /installing something in the house with power tools.
What do you think would be an example of that angry Ni in some situations?
For example, it's like how you wish to know everything and how situations will unfold. Like everything is solved; there's no need to learn more because there isn't more to learn. You got the control and understanding you've been searching for. Some ENTJs can feel they're at that point and want to stay there. So they shut off Ni since that little doubt in the back of their mind is just tiring.
Normally, ENTJs are too well aware (or wise) to not speak in absolutes because that'll come back to bite them. They think things through and make peace with whatever is leftover they can't control. That, in itself, is also a way to rationalize.
Alas, reality always changes, and the world moves on. ENTJs with Ni shut off wouldn't realize that until it's too late, when they're in a shitty situation and see that they have nobody but themselves to blame for it. I'd imagine it's a sense of falling behind their own expectations and having to catch up, and everything has to be fixed right away so that can be stressing.
This makes a lot of sense! I feel like that was me in my worst moments of burnout and depression. I went full nihilistic, where I was like nothing really matters in the long run, like I had reached the end of everything and saw nothing. We are just going to die anyway, so what’s the point with anything? Luckily, I got out of it for the most part.
And what do you think it is that I like to disassemble something neatly and then put it back together (usually electronics with screws)? I want to see how and what it’s made of, and it's super entertaining to do, but also for beneficial reasons like cleaning them. I also enjoyed a lot of those factory documents where they show how things are made as a child (and still do).
Oh that's Se agency, it takes the Te system and wants to see it all broken down into bits and pieces analyzing them through.
Interesting! I thought it would be more of a Ti thing!
Ti is more in the background there! Once you see the system in the clarity you like. Te information gets registered into Ti. It's basically a memory bank.
But it's not always about solving a problem. Sometimes, after learning something new, I ponder where else I can apply the concept or if it could be used differently than intended. I consider its properties and essence and then organize these ideas into mental “boxes” labeled by the properties of the things or concepts in it. Also the same object or concept can belong to different boxes simultaneously if it has multiple different properties.
When I need something, I access my “brain-box” containing items or concepts with the properties I seek. Then, I filter the contents of that box to find the most suitable options for the situation. Often, the first box is already sorted to fit the situation. Items like glue, slime, and velcro, which share similar properties (i.e. things with an ability to stick to surfaces), can be found in one box. However, they may not always work for the specific situation at hand. So, I fine tune and filter out items that I either don't have at the moment or that aren't suitable. I prioritize using something I already have to solve the problem quickly, and saving money is an added bonus.
Has this something to do with that Ti memory thing?
Yeap. Mind this is more a Te user’s Ti than actual Ti. You want to retain the knowledge, and putting it back together builds up that Ti. There may be some Te there if you learned something new from putting it back that you didn't when you broke it down. And one day, that knowledge will be useful!
Does that have anything to with my tendency to “trust” that I know how to assemble it back? Like I’m never afraid that I’ll break anything I disassemble. Or even if something breaks, I can fix it.
And while I do take pictures to ensure that everything goes back to their original places, I could build it back up without looking at them. And it’s mostly because I can’t be sure that nothing interrupts me while I’m rebuilding. If I’m doing nonstop and fast work then I don’t really need them. I do check the pictures occasionally for just in case, but I tend to be correct in my estimation. I just don’t like to end up in situations where I possibly could’ve forgotten something and find loose parts after getting it all together and I’d have to open it again.
So it’s actually with Se that you pick up the key details for how something works. So you can break it down and put it back. And it feels like you're on top of that process, whether you have good mechanical skills or take a lot notes. Using the Agency position is usually an enjoyable thing.
My preference is to use things that exist already, and I can modify something to be something else too. Only thing I don’t like to do is if some individual started to make something and it’s not done yet. I don’t wish to take that work in progress for myself. It’s more personal I guess. I’d prefer to modify something that I bought from the store. Legos is a nice example.
If someone has started building something but didn’t finish it, I would disassemble the whole thing and start again. I don’t know if they made mistakes, and by continuing I’m doomed from the start if that’s the case. So better to just start from the beginning. Or when building IKEA furniture, I want to do it on my own. It’s my happy time and I don’t want anyone to come and disturb my process.
I wonder where does the tendency come from to avoid using someone else’s wheel or work in progress as a base for my own.
Se/Si Agency can hold a lot of intricate information for systems that feel that they should be yours. So there's a bit of possessiveness to it. It can be hard to trust someone else to use your system, like you gotta show all of the little nuances and there's never an ending of that. And also with other people's systems, they just don't feel like they’re yours. You don't have that same intimate Sensing connection with it. It's like walking into a house as a guest. Either you go dive in deep and familiarize yourself with everything, or build your own....whichever one is easier.
This makes a lot of sense! First I thought it would be more of a Fi thing.